Seidhr Part 2 „ They sat ouside and just did it“

In part 2 of our article about seidhr / seidr the focus is on the interaction with Finns and Sami and their religious and shamanic practices. Read part 1 before.

It is a common stance that the scandinavian seidr / seidhr of the iron age is a more or less direct consequence of the contacts and cultural exchange of the northmen  with the Sami and the Finns. These tribes ans groups had transferred their shamanic traditions as magical service men to the scandinavians, it is told. A genuine nordic-germanic seidr / seidhr as described by us here before  did not exist. To feed this theory, the usual trance theories are used with the general line, that seidr / seidhr is based on shaking trance forms and not bound to a specific culture. Jan Fries tried this in „Seidways“ and failed profoundly when he even used the caribean Voodoo cults for this attempt but was heavily copied by Asatruars and others all the time.What a habit when it comes to marginalized religions as ours..... That is not correct, to tell this in advance, since the nordic-germanic seidr / seidhr is different from shamanic techniques of the Sami and Finns.

We made it pretty clear in part 1, on the basis of Scandinavian literature and the sagas, that seidhr or seidr is a form of magic to harm other people resp. to manipulate them (black seidr) or nature, i.e. the weather to harm others  or to foretell the future, the harvests, the weather and manipulate them to be positive to the customers (white seidr)

In part 2 we want to elaborate, where the differences and similarities are and how the theory of this cultural transitions with the Finns and Sami have evolved. On the first view it is obvious, that the art of seidr / seidhr was connected with Halogalnd and Finnmark in Norway. And with an imagined Finland, where most practitioners lived and stories came from and Sami and Fins. From there the bloodthirsty stories about Roegenvaldr Rettilbeini emerged, who was burned to death by his father king Harald for his Seidr/ Seidhr practices with 80 other Seidmen, his companions. That happened in a heathen context, just because King Harald hated seidmen bitterly and send them to Hel. Roegnvaldr had a Sami wife and his grandson Eyvindr Kelda was also burnt to death by King Olaf Tryggvason. Elvyndir also had strong Sami conections. Nevertheless in this article we want to work out, if the notorious "Seidr-Sami connection" is not superficial since the Sami and Finn shamanism differed from seidr / seidhr a lot by its strong focus of healing of the ill and doing good for the tribe, the kinship or the group.  

Drum pictures in this articles show shamans drums who are not connected to seidr/ seidhr at all, since seidmen did not use drums at all as far as we know. 

On the other hand there are many stories about the export of seidr / seidhr to Greenland and Iceland by the Northmen, that immediately gained a shady reputation there that ranged from the ghoulish to the slightly positive. Slightly positive was the female settler Thuridr Sundafylii  who was born in Halogaland and whose home in Iceland was spilling over with fish every day. That was regarded positive by some and a more rare Seidr / Seidhr variety negelcted by many or unkown to the masses. In case the fish will end sooner when using fish seidr, so it is still egoistic and not really "white".  There is no Christian connection to that by the way and Snorry did not have Jesus and his fish miracle in mind when reporting this.

Seidkonas and tietätjä

 Manipulation of nature is also a part of seidr/ seidhr and maybe seen as white seidr/ seidhr, but some say ist could be both: black and white since other may suffer from this, not only the fish. Beside fishing, the creation of storms and heavy winds and fog was a dish in the seidr / seidhr menu and seen as black and so even today in West Norway there are official signs and boards for tourists praising the killing of 120 Seidmen there in the fjord 1200 years ago by drowning them alive for creating magical fog to enter a vilage for rape, pilage and plunder. Feel free to write some anti seidr curses on the board as the Norwegians do - they still hate seidmen more than the tax collector today.

In fact, what most of the things the infamous seidpeople did in the iron age are exactly the same as notorious secret service agencies as the CIA, NSA, BND and MOSSAD, FSB are doing, just remember the insane weather manipulations by HAARP now done on a "regular basis" also in Europe and tracking of common people by satelites and radio and telecom pylons and harassing them with hissing and humming noises in their ears even in nature. That is not even strange, because seidmen and seidkonas were payed warlock types mainly who worked often for nobles and kings.                      
                   

Bild rechts:

Skern runestone: Curse:

"a seidmen who breaks this stone"

Have a look at the runestone of Skern with a curse against seidmen for a quick braincloud about the Norwegians attitude about it, even if the stone is from Denmark. So better do not start a "Seidr" workshop there and even "shamanism" will maybe create raised eyebrows - to many ancestors of this modern vikings had been killed or maimed by seidr / seidhr a millinium ago and before and later and the Norwegians somehow connect "the Finsns" and thjer shamanism still with seidr /seidhr for historical reasons. But maybe you get a feeling for the difference between shamans and seidmen even that early in the text here.

The quite exact descriptions of Seidr / Seidhr crafts and arts above do not conform  at all to  the work of samic or finno-ugric shamans known as noiade or finnish noita or tietätjä. Their field of work is clearly and without doubt situated in the context of healing besides divination to a smaller degree. But costumes and trance are also part of their craft as in seidr / seidhr. They used and use the drum and its rythm to reach trance, shamans are predominantly male, seidpeople mostly female or homosexual but not all. There is not one source we know today that seidkonas or seidmen ever used a drum - a major criteria for differentiation with shamanisms.

Seidkonas and seidmen used a sweet song, the vardlokkur i.e. to reach a trance state or hyperventilation or other types of incantantions as galdr of special form  to reach a form of trance I would also differentiate from a shamanic trance / journey. A seidr / seidhr trance mostly attracts certain ghosts and gods who may then be used and send out to do certain acts.

It is true, that the finnish tietätjä do diviantion beside their main task: healing, that is even more dominant in the Sami tradition, but there is absolutely NO healing tradition with seidr / seidhr that is known and that is the most important difference. The inner nature of seidr / seidhr can best be described by the historical facts that beside the target, the seidikona or seidmen could fall ill after a ritual and even today whole groups, who participate in seidr/ seidhr actions with singing to create a trance can fall ill for months whe one tiny bit fails in the process or a ghost gets angry with soemone.

The peril of Seidr / Seidhr for its practitioners

Heimdall may ask, what the f..
was that group about?

 

Ethnologist Jenny Blain has described in her book SEIDR, that the wyrd or urdr (wyrd is anglosaxon but today used instead of norse urdr widely) of a whole group singing the vardlokkur or the galdr has changed after a seidr / seidhr ritual or they all fell ill when one ghost who appeared did not like just one participant, who was not the right person there. Curing this is quite difficult today since experts for this have been killed a long time ago and godi and priests who also did cure this before are quite rare to find these days. These are just the accidents that ćan happen, but today even a quite normal outcome of such a group practice i.e. that the god Heimdall appeared as a living entity in a finish sauna etc. next to Jenny Blain and others are difficult to grasp for normal citizens.  Even though Heimdall is one of the nicer gods or ghosts who may appear alive and kicking to ask what this is all about or whatever.

Since thus did happen in oracle seidr / seidhr according to Jeny Blain: be sure what you are doing since this is a rather harmles variety of seidr before engage in black seidr or seidhr........

famous "heidi" called voelva in reality
a seidkona for wicked women
in traditional garn

In contrast to Jenny Blain I do warn here to ever go down the helway. Just do not do this, do not go down to helheim, there is absolutely no excuse to walk down to hel and this was an unthinkable offence for our ancestors. It just does not make any sense since hel is never really interested in a positive sense in humans. She just does not care, she just throws things together and one over the others as old bones, so to speak: she is a giant. Do not mix Core shamanic attitudes of underworld journeys in this at all too with their too masonic approasch that underwolrd journeys are the bassi of all shamanic work. That is dangerous and wrong. Just leave that helheim alone for your wyrds sake.

Also in core shamanic workshops there is a danger of physical death when you are dealing with journeys to spirits of the dead in their realms what they offer here for everybody. There is a point in that where you can just let loose and you will go without return if you feel too attracted. There is also a danger to be obsessed by a spirit of a dead later and some people just do not get their real freedom back at all and search for help for years even after just one interaction in  core shamanic "Death and dying workshops". There are also core shamanic techniques there to push some dead relatives further into another sphere, when you find them in a dungeon before in the underworld where they got stuck. Some are then following you for a decade maybe later because they do not know what to do, so leave that out, that was highly paid master practice by master shamans in certain traditions as in Finland and with the Sami.  Similarities to the caves under holy mountains of the Sami and Finns are striking. But to say that again: working with the dead is not easy or light even in a non seidr / seidhr shamanic context. Leave that to master experts for acute help, do not do it just for fun or adventure. The ghosts of the dead are as wicked and good< or bad as they were before as living humans and who needs this? Voodoo masters?

So I did keep my promise to tell you what not to do from part 1.  

Assumptions at the end

Ancestral cults in the context of seidr / seidhr have not ben researched too much yet. Also not the handling of the dead and spirits of the dead in the finno-ugric, finnish and sami religions of the iron age. And exactly there lies the connection betwen seidr/ seidhr and the sami and finnish traditions, even cultural exchange but not beyond that a lot.

Sami and Finns had an extensive ancestral cult and even have now I guess....Finnish shamans lead their dead to corridors and areas under holy mountains and the Sami even have reincarnation of dead souls.

There are positive souls of the dead both for sami and fins who are worshipped  and negative souls of the dead who may haunt the living. Those maybe banned souls were a major threat for the people and vulnerabilities of the living through dead spirits was a major attribute of iron age religion in Finand and with the Sami. So the worst danger there and these people are toughies. 

Our assumption here is, that the seidkonas and seidmen may have linked in there an used the dead souls for malevolent practices in scandinavia or used techniques there, learned from the "Fins"  and /or took the evil shamanic boys and girls with them .

These wandering spirits of the dead are the most easy to manipulate and carry on the charactre of the living person. With regard to the negative status of the seidmen and seidkonas, their ergi status and their soldier of fortune and warlock  behaviour  it is very easy to conclude, that they have used spirits of the dead for black seidr, exploiting finnish and sami traditions. And they may have used other more bleak characters from the Fins to do this in regard with the sagas and the stories of the victims of such attacks. 

Odin as wanderer, looks more than
a bit as a sorcerer here

Another assumption is about the role of Odin in contrast to his benevolent magical role in Ynglingasaga 7. Were the seidmen and seidkonas protected by him? Isn't there a resemblance to the berserker and ulfhednar, also a form of ecstatic warrior shamans  with the seidpeople? Also when it comes to the profound damages they created in scandinavian socities? As the seidpeople did sometimes? Here it remains in the realms of speculation, if Odin taught magical practices to the priests, allegedly from the vanir gods and godesses. It sounds much more real and sound, that he was connected to seidr, it does not have the feel of vanir magic too much, personally I do not believe the story of the vanir magic Odin used..... that also showed in his appearance with wand, long coat and big hat.  Not to speak of his use of ravens, met that are necessary to provide him with certain magic powers. Not very common with the other gods to be dependent on such tools that seem to come straight out of seidr / seidhr and walk around on earth as them sometimes. it also resembles not too much of the vanir goods, I guess but of others....Do never forget that Snorri wrote his Odin stories as the greatest king of the gods  after christianization. We have deconstructed Odin a bit here too.....

In the TV series Vikings that was shown as a wanderer Harbard, one of his kennings  who turns into amurdering entity just for no real good reason, just for feeling a bit offended, not a god as Thor or Frey at all i.e.,  but more or less an intermediary being in the realms of the dead and Einherjer , So he was not really worshiped too much in scandinavia in regards with Thor, Frey, Njoerd etc.Even Freya was much more in favour then him. But then the warriors fell for him in the later years and....lost everything against the Christian kings...you always lose with Odin, take care....the great price you get as a disciople of Odin is being dead and may live with his einherjer - but what remains for the familes and all the living kin: nothing

Sitting outside  at graves was not regardes as apositive habit at all in the iron age but connected also with odin and seidr and even punished at heathen times when the spirit of the dead were roaming around then. So they did it and it was disrespected always. We have described the connection of odin and his men with the ghosts of the dead quite in depth here.

Magical  killings and  maddening people for money or without was a severe crime always in heathen and christian scandinavia, ergi to the bone and clear opposition to the virtues of honur, peace and hail of those societies. And exactly THIS created the ergi status of seidmen and seidkonas, not their alleged "queerness".

Also the phenomenon of seidr / seidhr was and  is just on the fringes in scandinavian heathen societies, a side phenomenom, quite rare, but it was just hyped in our days by some by such an extent, that it became a gay or queer subcultural event. There is much more to be researched and used from our old culture as spa, voelvas, valas, healing with herbs, galdrs to heal and protect and those doing this  were in the core of society, not seidr / seidhr. Maybe we should invest ouŕ time and virtues in that. 

And the gods appear with well done blóts at the right time as we told you also and more wholesome I guess then, as with luring ghosts who appear to be them with sweet songs etc. A quick outline was given here, a what to do

So, to give you a positive outlook on our old religions spirituality  someting from Oddrúnargrátr  describing charms to ea

with charms to give birth after heavy labour. Oddrun has spoken those charms for Borgny, so she could give birth to twins: 
I also have an article about German heathen charms here 

rict gól Oddrvn,
rammt gól Oddrvn
bitra galdra
at Borgnyio.

Translation:
With magic Oddrun | and mightily Oddrun
Chanted for Borgny | potent charms.

And Borgny thanks her:

Knatti męr oc mꜹgr
moldveg sporna,
born þꜹ in bliþo
viþ bana Hꜹgna;
þat nam at męla
męr fiorsivka,
sva at hon ecci qvaþ
orþ iþ fyrra:

Sva hialpi þer
hollar vettir,
Frigg oc Freyia
oc fleiri goð,
sem þv feldir mer
fár af hondom!“

Translation:

At last were born | a boy and girl,
Son and daughter | of Hogni's slayer;
Then speech the woman | so weak began,
Nor said she aught | ere this she spake:

"So may the holy | ones thee help,
Frigg and Freyja | and favoring gods,
As thou hast saved me | from despair now."



Sources:

Dubois: Nordic religions in the Viking age
Jenny Blain: Seidr
Jan Fries: Seidways
Oddrúnargrátr

Codex Regius
Odin revisited. Der Herr der Männrbünde Teil 1 
Seidr:Lifting the veil part 1 

German articles about Seidr:
teil 1 
teil 2

by Ronald Kaiser