Seidhr Part 2 „ They sat ouside and just did it“

In part 2 of our article about seidhr / seidr the focus is on the interaction with Finns and Sami and their religious and shamanic practices. Read part 1 before.

It is a common stance that the scandinavian seidr / seidhr of the iron age is a more or less direct consequence of the contacts and cultural exchange of the northmen  with the Sami and the Finns. These tribes ans groups had transferred their shamanic traditions as magical service men to the scandinavians, it is told. A genuine nordic-germanic seidr / seidhr as described by us here before  did not exist. To feed this theory, the usual trance theories are used with the general line, that seidr / seidhr is based on shaking trance forms and not bound to a specific culture. Jan Fries tried this in „Seidways“ and failed profoundly when he even used the caribean Voodoo cults for this attempt but was heavily copied by Asatruars and others all the time.What a habit when it comes to marginalized religions as ours..... That is not correct, to tell this in advance, since the nordic-germanic seidr / seidhr is different from shamanic techniques of the Sami and Finns.

We made it pretty clear in part 1, on the basis of Scandinavian literature and the sagas, that seidhr or seidr is a form of magic to harm other people resp. to manipulate them (black seidr) or nature, i.e. the weather to harm others  or to foretell the future, the harvests, the weather and manipulate them to be positive to the customers (white seidr)

In part 2 we want to elaborate, where the differences and similarities are and how the theory of this cultural transitions with the Finns and Sami have evolved. On the first view it is obvious, that the art of seidr / seidhr was connected with Halogalnd and Finnmark in Norway. And with an imagined Finland, where most practitioners lived and stories came from and Sami and Fins. From there the bloodthirsty stories about Roegenvaldr Rettilbeini emerged, who was burned to death by his father king Harald for his Seidr/ Seidhr practices with 80 other Seidmen, his companions. That happened in a heathen context, just because King Harald hated seidmen bitterly and send them to Hel. Roegnvaldr had a Sami wife and his grandson Eyvindr Kelda was also burnt to death by King Olaf Tryggvason. Elvyndir also had strong Sami conections. Nevertheless in this article we want to work out, if the notorious "Seidr-Sami connection" is not superficial since the Sami and Finn shamanism differed from seidr / seidhr a lot by its strong focus of healing of the ill and doing good for the tribe, the kinship or the group.  

Drum pictures in this articles show shamans drums who are not connected to seidr/ seidhr at all, since seidmen did not use drums at all as far as we know. 

On the other hand there are many stories about the export of seidr / seidhr to Greenland and Iceland by the Northmen, that immediately gained a shady reputation there that ranged from the ghoulish to the slightly positive. Slightly positive was the female settler Thuridr Sundafylii  who was born in Halogaland and whose home in Iceland was spilling over with fish every day. That was regarded positive by some and a more rare Seidr / Seidhr variety negelcted by many or unkown to the masses. In case the fish will end sooner when using fish seidr, so it is still egoistic and not really "white".  There is no Christian connection to that by the way and Snorry did not have Jesus and his fish miracle in mind when reporting this.

Seidkonas and tietätjä

 Manipulation of nature is also a part of seidr/ seidhr and maybe seen as white seidr/ seidhr, but some say ist could be both: black and white since other may suffer from this, not only the fish. Beside fishing, the creation of storms and heavy winds and fog was a dish in the seidr / seidhr menu and seen as black and so even today in West Norway there are official signs and boards for tourists praising the killing of 120 Seidmen there in the fjord 1200 years ago by drowning them alive for creating magical fog to enter a vilage for rape, pilage and plunder. Feel free to write some anti seidr curses on the board as the Norwegians do - they still hate seidmen more than the tax collector today.

In fact, what most of the things the infamous seidpeople did in the iron age are exactly the same as notorious secret service agencies as the CIA, NSA, BND and MOSSAD, FSB are doing, just remember the insane weather manipulations by HAARP now done on a "regular basis" also in Europe and tracking of common people by satelites and radio and telecom pylons and harassing them with hissing and humming noises in their ears even in nature. That is not even strange, because seidmen and seidkonas were payed warlock types mainly who worked often for nobles and kings.                      
                   

Bild rechts:

Skern runestone: Curse:

"a seidmen who breaks this stone"

Have a look at the runestone of Skern with a curse against seidmen for a quick braincloud about the Norwegians attitude about it, even if the stone is from Denmark. So better do not start a "Seidr" workshop there and even "shamanism" will maybe create raised eyebrows - to many ancestors of this modern vikings had been killed or maimed by seidr / seidhr a millinium ago and before and later and the Norwegians somehow connect "the Finsns" and thjer shamanism still with seidr /seidhr for historical reasons. But maybe you get a feeling for the difference between shamans and seidmen even that early in the text here.

The quite exact descriptions of Seidr / Seidhr crafts and arts above do not conform  at all to  the work of samic or finno-ugric shamans known as noiade or finnish noita or tietätjä. Their field of work is clearly and without doubt situated in the context of healing besides divination to a smaller degree. But costumes and trance are also part of their craft as in seidr / seidhr. They used and use the drum and its rythm to reach trance, shamans are predominantly male, seidpeople mostly female or homosexual but not all. There is not one source we know today that seidkonas or seidmen ever used a drum - a major criteria for differentiation with shamanisms.

Seidkonas and seidmen used a sweet song, the vardlokkur i.e. to reach a trance state or hyperventilation or other types of incantantions as galdr of special form  to reach a form of trance I would also differentiate from a shamanic trance / journey. A seidr / seidhr trance mostly attracts certain ghosts and gods who may then be used and send out to do certain acts.

It is true, that the finnish tietätjä do diviantion beside their main task: healing, that is even more dominant in the Sami tradition, but there is absolutely NO healing tradition with seidr / seidhr that is known and that is the most important difference. The inner nature of seidr / seidhr can best be described by the historical facts that beside the target, the seidikona or seidmen could fall ill after a ritual and even today whole groups, who participate in seidr/ seidhr actions with singing to create a trance can fall ill for months whe one tiny bit fails in the process or a ghost gets angry with soemone.

The peril of Seidr / Seidhr for its practitioners

Heimdall may ask, what the f..
was that group about?

 

Ethnologist Jenny Blain has described in her book SEIDR, that the wyrd or urdr (wyrd is anglosaxon but today used instead of norse urdr widely) of a whole group singing the vardlokkur or the galdr has changed after a seidr / seidhr ritual or they all fell ill when one ghost who appeared did not like just one participant, who was not the right person there. Curing this is quite difficult today since experts for this have been killed a long time ago and godi and priests who also did cure this before are quite rare to find these days. These are just the accidents that ćan happen, but today even a quite normal outcome of such a group practice i.e. that the god Heimdall appeared as a living entity in a finish sauna etc. next to Jenny Blain and others are difficult to grasp for normal citizens.  Even though Heimdall is one of the nicer gods or ghosts who may appear alive and kicking to ask what this is all about or whatever.

Since thus did happen in oracle seidr / seidhr according to Jeny Blain: be sure what you are doing since this is a rather harmles variety of seidr before engage in black seidr or seidhr........

famous "heidi" called voelva in reality
a seidkona for wicked women
in traditional garn

In contrast to Jenny Blain I do warn here to ever go down the helway. Just do not do this, do not go down to helheim, there is absolutely no excuse to walk down to hel and this was an unthinkable offence for our ancestors. It just does not make any sense since hel is never really interested in a positive sense in humans. She just does not care, she just throws things together and one over the others as old bones, so to speak: she is a giant. Do not mix Core shamanic attitudes of underworld journeys in this at all too with their too masonic approasch that underwolrd journeys are the bassi of all shamanic work. That is dangerous and wrong. Just leave that helheim alone for your wyrds sake.

Also in core shamanic workshops there is a danger of physical death when you are dealing with journeys to spirits of the dead in their realms what they offer here for everybody. There is a point in that where you can just let loose and you will go without return if you feel too attracted. There is also a danger to be obsessed by a spirit of a dead later and some people just do not get their real freedom back at all and search for help for years even after just one interaction in  core shamanic "Death and dying workshops". There are also core shamanic techniques there to push some dead relatives further into another sphere, when you find them in a dungeon before in the underworld where they got stuck. Some are then following you for a decade maybe later because they do not know what to do, so leave that out, that was highly paid master practice by master shamans in certain traditions as in Finland and with the Sami.  Similarities to the caves under holy mountains of the Sami and Finns are striking. But to say that again: working with the dead is not easy or light even in a non seidr / seidhr shamanic context. Leave that to master experts for acute help, do not do it just for fun or adventure. The ghosts of the dead are as wicked and good< or bad as they were before as living humans and who needs this? Voodoo masters?

So I did keep my promise to tell you what not to do from part 1.  

Assumptions at the end

Ancestral cults in the context of seidr / seidhr have not ben researched too much yet. Also not the handling of the dead and spirits of the dead in the finno-ugric, finnish and sami religions of the iron age. And exactly there lies the connection betwen seidr/ seidhr and the sami and finnish traditions, even cultural exchange but not beyond that a lot.

Sami and Finns had an extensive ancestral cult and even have now I guess....Finnish shamans lead their dead to corridors and areas under holy mountains and the Sami even have reincarnation of dead souls.

There are positive souls of the dead both for sami and fins who are worshipped  and negative souls of the dead who may haunt the living. Those maybe banned souls were a major threat for the people and vulnerabilities of the living through dead spirits was a major attribute of iron age religion in Finand and with the Sami. So the worst danger there and these people are toughies. 

Our assumption here is, that the seidkonas and seidmen may have linked in there an used the dead souls for malevolent practices in scandinavia or used techniques there, learned from the "Fins"  and /or took the evil shamanic boys and girls with them .

These wandering spirits of the dead are the most easy to manipulate and carry on the charactre of the living person. With regard to the negative status of the seidmen and seidkonas, their ergi status and their soldier of fortune and warlock  behaviour  it is very easy to conclude, that they have used spirits of the dead for black seidr, exploiting finnish and sami traditions. And they may have used other more bleak characters from the Fins to do this in regard with the sagas and the stories of the victims of such attacks. 

Odin as wanderer, looks more than
a bit as a sorcerer here

Another assumption is about the role of Odin in contrast to his benevolent magical role in Ynglingasaga 7. Were the seidmen and seidkonas protected by him? Isn't there a resemblance to the berserker and ulfhednar, also a form of ecstatic warrior shamans  with the seidpeople? Also when it comes to the profound damages they created in scandinavian socities? As the seidpeople did sometimes? Here it remains in the realms of speculation, if Odin taught magical practices to the priests, allegedly from the vanir gods and godesses. It sounds much more real and sound, that he was connected to seidr, it does not have the feel of vanir magic too much, personally I do not believe the story of the vanir magic Odin used..... that also showed in his appearance with wand, long coat and big hat.  Not to speak of his use of ravens, met that are necessary to provide him with certain magic powers. Not very common with the other gods to be dependent on such tools that seem to come straight out of seidr / seidhr and walk around on earth as them sometimes. it also resembles not too much of the vanir goods, I guess but of others....Do never forget that Snorri wrote his Odin stories as the greatest king of the gods  after christianization. We have deconstructed Odin a bit here too.....

In the TV series Vikings that was shown as a wanderer Harbard, one of his kennings  who turns into amurdering entity just for no real good reason, just for feeling a bit offended, not a god as Thor or Frey at all i.e.,  but more or less an intermediary being in the realms of the dead and Einherjer , So he was not really worshiped too much in scandinavia in regards with Thor, Frey, Njoerd etc.Even Freya was much more in favour then him. But then the warriors fell for him in the later years and....lost everything against the Christian kings...you always lose with Odin, take care....the great price you get as a disciople of Odin is being dead and may live with his einherjer - but what remains for the familes and all the living kin: nothing

Sitting outside  at graves was not regardes as apositive habit at all in the iron age but connected also with odin and seidr and even punished at heathen times when the spirit of the dead were roaming around then. So they did it and it was disrespected always. We have described the connection of odin and his men with the ghosts of the dead quite in depth here.

Magical  killings and  maddening people for money or without was a severe crime always in heathen and christian scandinavia, ergi to the bone and clear opposition to the virtues of honur, peace and hail of those societies. And exactly THIS created the ergi status of seidmen and seidkonas, not their alleged "queerness".

Also the phenomenon of seidr / seidhr was and  is just on the fringes in scandinavian heathen societies, a side phenomenom, quite rare, but it was just hyped in our days by some by such an extent, that it became a gay or queer subcultural event. There is much more to be researched and used from our old culture as spa, voelvas, valas, healing with herbs, galdrs to heal and protect and those doing this  were in the core of society, not seidr / seidhr. Maybe we should invest ouŕ time and virtues in that. 

And the gods appear with well done blóts at the right time as we told you also and more wholesome I guess then, as with luring ghosts who appear to be them with sweet songs etc. A quick outline was given here, a what to do

So, to give you a positive outlook on our old religions spirituality  someting from Oddrúnargrátr  describing charms to ea

with charms to give birth after heavy labour. Oddrun has spoken those charms for Borgny, so she could give birth to twins: 
I also have an article about German heathen charms here 

rict gól Oddrvn,
rammt gól Oddrvn
bitra galdra
at Borgnyio.

Translation:
With magic Oddrun | and mightily Oddrun
Chanted for Borgny | potent charms.

And Borgny thanks her:

Knatti męr oc mꜹgr
moldveg sporna,
born þꜹ in bliþo
viþ bana Hꜹgna;
þat nam at męla
męr fiorsivka,
sva at hon ecci qvaþ
orþ iþ fyrra:

Sva hialpi þer
hollar vettir,
Frigg oc Freyia
oc fleiri goð,
sem þv feldir mer
fár af hondom!“

Translation:

At last were born | a boy and girl,
Son and daughter | of Hogni's slayer;
Then speech the woman | so weak began,
Nor said she aught | ere this she spake:

"So may the holy | ones thee help,
Frigg and Freyja | and favoring gods,
As thou hast saved me | from despair now."



Sources:

Dubois: Nordic religions in the Viking age
Jenny Blain: Seidr
Jan Fries: Seidways
Oddrúnargrátr

Codex Regius
Odin revisited. Der Herr der Männrbünde Teil 1 
Seidr:Lifting the veil part 1 

German articles about Seidr:
teil 1 
teil 2

by Ronald Kaiser

 

 

Seidhr Teil 2 „Sie saßen draußen herum und taten es einfach“

Im 2. Teil unseres Artikels über Seidhr / Seidr liegt der Fokus auf der Interaktion mit den Finnen und Samen und deren religiösen und schamanischen Praktiken. Teil 1 sollten Sie zuvor lesen.

Oft wird behauptet, der uns bekannte skandinavische Seidhr der Eisenzeit sei eine direkte und mehr oder weniger direkte Folge des Kontakts und Kulturaustauschs der Nordmänner und -frauen mit den Finnen und Sámi. Diese hätten ihre schamanische Tradition als magische Dienstleister an die Skandinavier weitergegeben und einen genuinen nordisch-germanischen Seidhr in der von uns beschriebenen Form, siehe Teil 1, hier in englisch hätte es so nicht gegeben. Hierzu werden die üblichen Trancetheorien herbeigezogen, die sich im wesentlichen darauf beziehen, dass Seidhr etwas mit Schütteltrance grundsätzlich zu tun haben soll und dieses kulturübergreifend sei, z.B. auch im karibischen Voodookult etc. wie es z.B. Jan Fries in Seidways versuchte und was fleissig kolportiert wurde. Dies ist etwas oberflächlich und so nicht richtig, der nordisch-germanische Seidhr, eine sehr spezialisierte magische Technik, unterscheidet sich, vorab vermerkt, auch grundsätzlich von den schamanischen Techniken der Finnen und Sámi. Wir haben in Teil 1 klargestellt aufgrunde der skandinavischen Literatur und der Sagas dass es sich bei Seidhr bzw. Seidr um eine Form der Magie handelt um anderen Menschen zu schaden, sie zu manipulieren (schwarzer Seidhr) oder um die Zukunft vorauszusagen, sowie das Wetter und die Ernten und auch diese günstig zu stimmen. (weisser Seidhr) .

Wir wollen hier aber herausarbeiten, worin Unterschiede und Gemeinsamkeiten bestehen und wodurch diese Theorie der kulturellen Übertragung entstanden sein könnte. Zunächst ist es sehr auffällig, dass die Kunst des Seidhr immer wieder und am häufigsten mit Halogaland und der Finnmark in Norwegen und auch dem eher imaginierten „Finnland“ in Verbindung gebracht wird, weil von dort die meisten Berichte vorliegen und sehr viele Praktiker zu Hause waren und viele Sámi und „Finnen“. Von dort gibt es dann auch die eher blutrünstigen Geschichten über Rögnvaldr Rettilbeini zu berichten, der dort wegen seiner beruflichen Seidhr Tätigkeit mit 80 seiner Kollegen verbrannt wurde von seinem Vater, König Harald, im heidnischen Kontext wohlgemerkt, eben weil dieser König Harald Seidhmen hasste.  Dieser hatte eine Sámi Ehefrau und Rögnvaldrs Enkelsohn Eyvindr Kelda wurde wegen seiner Tätigkeit als Seidhmadr ebenfalls von König Olaf Tryggvason exekutiert. Dieser hatte ebenfalls bedeutende Beziehungen zu den Sámi. Wir wollen hier aber sehen, ob nicht grade der Bezug zu den Sámi, die berüchtigte "Sámi Connection" eher vordergründig ist und mißdeutet wurde, denn deren Schamanismus galt sehr stark der Heilung von Kranken und dient dem Wohl der  Gruppe. Beide Bilder im Artikel zeigen übrigend samische Schamanentrommeln und haben nichts mit Seidhr zu tun, da man dort nicht trommelte.

Andererseits gibt es aber auch jede Menge Geschichten, warum der Seidhr von den Nordmännern und -frauen bis nach Grönland und Island exportiert wurde und sich dort eines zwielichtig-makaberen bis eher selten wohlmeinenden Ansehens erfreute, wie wir in Teil 1 beschrieben. So hat die Siedlerin Thuridr Sundafyllir, gebürtig in Halogaland, die Kunst entwickelt, mittels Seidhr so viele Fische zu fangen wie sie wollte und ihr Heim in Island quoll immer über vom Fischfang, was sicher nicht ungern gesehen wurde und auch eine typischen Seidhr-Variante ist, die aber bislang vernachlässigt wurde. Ein christlicher Bezug wird im übrigen von uns auf das Schärfste verleugnet und abgelehnt, nein, Snorri oder wer auch immer hatten nicht den Joshua im Sinne bei der Geschichte über die Fischvermehrung.  ;-)
Aber auch diese Form der Naturmanipulation beinhaltet Egoismus, da die Fische dadurch irgendwann und sehr schnell ganz weg sind. Andere naturmaniplatione der seidmen und seidkonas waren Überschwmmungen, Stürme, usw. gegen Bezahlung.

Betrachtet man sich die neuesten Aktivitäten von Geheimdiensten wie der CIA, NSA,BND, MOSSAD und BND wie die skrupellose Wettermaipulationen via HAARP, die jetzt auch in Europa wie selbstverständlich vorgenommen werden und das tracken von Personen mit Stalliten und Telekommasten mit anschliessender Belästigung wie zischen, rauschen und pfeifen in den Ohren, dann kann man wenig Unterschiede zwischen den Seidleuten und modernen Geheimdienstlern feststellen. Auch der schlechte Ruf als warlocks und Söldner, die nur zerstören können, ist ähnlich.

Seidkonas und tietätjä

Aber zurück zu den Grundlagen und die betreffen die Definition des Seidhr Rituals und dieses besagt, dass es entweder der Divination oder der Manipulation vor allem von Menschen aber auch der Natur diente, wobei Ersteres dem weißen Seidhr und zweites eher dem schwarzen Seidhr zugeordnet wird, wobei die Manipulation von Naturgewalten, um Fische zu fangen z.B. für die Menschen eher positiv, für die Fische aber negativ zu deuten sein könnte, deshalb könte man dies insgesamt zum weissen Seidhr rechnen, wobei diese Unterscheidungen eh eher akademischer Natur sind. Die Manipulation der Natur  ist auch ein wichtiger, aber in der Forschung vernachlässigter Bereich des Seidhr, so wurden wie gesagt Fischfang und Meeresstürme, Nebel damit manipuliert. So war das Fischerglück der Thurid auf Island sicher positiv angesehen und auch gerne gesehen, aber das erzeugen magischen Nebels in Westnorwegen, damit 120 Seidhmen ein Dorf dort überfallen konnten tiefschwarz. Davon zeugen noch heute im 21. Jahrhundert Hinweistafeln vor Ort, die mit üblen Beschimpfungen der lokalen Bevölkerung in Richtung Seidhmen verziert sind, die man übrigens damals direkt vor Ort alle ersäufte, auch noch nach 1200 Jahren. Dies kann ebensowenig wegrelativiert werden, wie die tiefe Abneigung der heutigen Nordmänner in Norwegen durchwegs gegen Seidhr, wie auch der Runenstein von Skjern aus Dänemark mit einem Fluch gegen Seidhmen verziert ist.

Diese aus heutiger Sicht recht exakte Tätigkeitsbeschreibung der Seidhkonas und Seidhmadres entspricht in wichtigen Bereichen nicht dem Tätigkeitsfeld der samischen und finno-ugrischen Schamanen, der noaide bzw. finnisch noita oder tietätjä.

Deren Tätigkeitbereich ist überwiegend im heilenden Kontext angesiedelt, neben der Divination in geringerem Masse. Dazu bedienten und bedient man sich einiger Element, die auch die Seidhrleute verwandten, z.B. Kostüm und Trance. Aber die Trance wurde fast immer durch die Trommel und ihren rhythmischen Klang erreicht, die Schamanen waren überwiegend männlich, die Seidhrleute überwiegend weiblich oder Homosexuelle. Wir haben bis heute keinerlei Beweis, das die Seidhrleute jemals eine Trommel besaßen oder benutzt haben - ein wichtiges Unterscheidungskriterium.

Die überwiegend weiblichen Seidhrleute, die Seidhkonas, gerieten durch den sog. Vardlokkur bzw. andere Gesänge wie galdr bzw. Hyperventilation in einen Geisterkontakt, den ich aber auch von einer schamanischen Reise abgrenzen würde. Die Seidhr Trance lockt doch eher durch süße Klänge Götter und Geister herbei, die dann gesendet, eingesetzt und manipuliert werden können.

Es ist richtig, dass der finnische tietäjä auch neben Heiltätigkeiten, wie auch bei den Sámi, die noch viel stärker im Heilbereich arbeiten, für die Divination und die Beeinflussung von Geistern angeheuert werden konnte, wichtig ist aber für unsere Entwicklung des Seidhr Begriffes , dass der Seidhr keinerlei heilende Behandlung und Heilung beinhaltete. Sondern im Gegenteil, er konnte neben den Opfern des schwarzen Seidhr nicht nur die Seidhkona krank machen oder gar töten, was auch geschah, sondern auch ganze Gruppen, die z.B. ihren Gesang zur Verfügung stellten auf Wochen oder Monate negativ beeinflussen, wenn auch nur eine Kleinigkeit schief ging.

Die Tücken des Seidhr für seine Praktiker

Die Ethnologin Jenny Blain hat in ihrem Buch Seidr davon berichtet und gewarnt, dass wenn auch nur ein einziges Mitglied des Kreises, der den vardlokkur oder den galdr singt nicht die Richtige ist oder ein Geistwesen sich an ihr stoße, dass dann länger dauernde Krankheiten der Gruppe folgen können oder eine Änderung des Wyrds der ganzen Gruppe, die wiederum äußerst intensive Behandlung benötigen, die im 21. Jahrhundert nur äußerst schwer beizubringen ist, da die Spezialisten ausgerottet wurden und auch entsprechende Opferpriester, die etwas tun könnten, rar sind. Zudem ist es neben solcher schwerer und bedrohlicher Krisen auch für eher normal gestrickte Bürgerinnen und Bürger u.U. nur schwer einzuordnen und zu verarbeiten, wenn, wie Jenny Blain wörtlich schreibt, z.B. der Gott Heimdall auf einmal mit im Kreis steht oder mit in der finnischen Sauna sitzt, um hier einen der angenehmen Zeitgenossen zu nennen, die eventuell auftauchen könnten. Dies sollten Mann und Frau wissen, bevor er oder sie sich auch auf Orakel-Seidhr einlässt. Ansonsten ist aber gegen den Orakel Seidhr nichts einzuwenden, es sei denn ein(e) Beteiligte habe eine allergische Disposition gegenüber Kontakten zu Göttern und Geistern bzw. sie sind sich nicht über die Folgen eines plötzlich veränderten Wyrds im voraus im Klaren.

Weiterhin warnen wir aber ausdrücklich vor dem sogenannten Helweg, bei dem Reisen in das Reich der Totengöttin Hel durchgeführt werden. Diese sind nicht nur gefährlich und machen keinen Sinn, sondern waren auch bei den eisenzeitlichen Ahnen undenkbar und stellen evtl. lediglich eine Vermischung mit neueren Core-schamanischen Vorstellungen dar. Es besteht wie bei gewissen schamanischen  Arbeiten mit Totengeistern übrigens auch, aber in veränderter Weise, die Gefahr real physisch zu versterben und dann eventuell in Helheim zu verbleiben. Oder aber von einem Totengeist besetzt zu werden, denn dies ist auch bei angeblich harmlosen "Core" schamanischen Reisen "in die Unterwelt" möglich, die interessanterweise den samischen und finnischen Vorstellungen von deren Totenreichen weitgehend entsprechen mit den Höhlen unter den heiligen Bergen z.B.. Wer einmal Personen erlebt hat, die plötzlich von einem unerwünschten Ahnengeist besessen waren und dies über Monate und Jahre mit sich herumtragen mussten, weiß wovon die Rede ist  und wir stellen uns auch die Frage, warum diese "Unterweltreisen" im gängigen Core Schamanismus grundsätzlich als erste und leichteste und harmloseste Disziplin gelehrt werden. 

Dies auch, um unsere Versprechen aus Teil 1 zu erfüllen, zu sagen, was Sie besser nicht tun sollten.

Eine These zum Schluss:

Was bislang wenig beachtet wurde im gesamten Seidhr-Komplex ist die Bedeutung des Ahnenkultes und der Umgang mit Toten und Totengeistern in der samischen, finno-ugrischen und skandinavischen Kultur der Eisenzeit. Und genau darin liegt unserer Meinung nach ein Kernpunkt des Kulturaustauschs im Seidhr-Kontext. Sowohl die Sámi als auch die „Finnen“ unterhielten einen sehr umfangreichen Ahnenkult und die finnischen Schamanen leiteten die Toten zu unterirdischen Bereichen und Gängen unter heiligen Bergen. Die Sami besaßen und besitzen mE sogar die Kenntnis von der Wiedergeburt, nach der sich die Geister der Toten reinkarnieren können. Hier ist aber wichtig, sowohl bei Sami als auch bei Finnen die Totengeister als essentiell wichtige Wächter für die Lebenden gelten, die geehrt werden und zwar sehr umfangreich. Es gab aber auch die verfluchten Ahnen, die für ihre Untaten gebannt wurden und zu umherirrenden Geistern wurden. So ist die Verletzlichkeit von Menschen durch Geister solcher Toten z.B. ein hervorstechendes Kernmerkmal der finnischen Religion der Eisenzeit.

Und unsere These lautet hier, die wir zur Diskussion stellen, wie immer, dass sich die skandinavischen Seidhrleute genau hier einhakten und mit Geistern auch solcher Toten schwarzen Seidhr betrieben, bzw. sich die Kenntnisse beim Umgang mit vor allem „den Finnen“ d.h. finno-ugrischen Gruppen besorgten. Und sicherlich gab es auch finnische tietäjä, die darin sehr bewandert waren und sich eines „schwarzen Schamanismus“ befleißigten. Denn diese umherirrenden Totengeister gelten als die am einfachsten zu manipuilierenden Geistwesen und Geistwesen sollen eben die Charaktereigenschaften der zuvor lebenden Person weitertragen. Betrachtet man sich den Status der schwarzen Seidhrleute als meist käufliche Magiesöldner, meist im ergi Status, dann könnte es naheliegen, dass man sich genau dort bedient hat: bei den verbannten Totengeistern, eventuell mit dem Know How anderer ausländischer Magiespezialisten - so klingen auch einige Berichte aus den Sagas über die Übergriffe auf die Opfer, siehe Teil 1 hierzu.

Weiterhin könnte es interessant sein zu erforschen, welchen Anteil der Gott Odin, trotz seiner andersgearteten Tätigkeit als eine Art geachteter "Schamane" laut Ynglingasaga 7 an den Künsten der Seidhleute gehabt haben könnte. Standen diese vielleicht sogar unter seinem Schutz? Insbesondere wenn man seinen Aspekt als Anführer von ekstatischen und skrupellosen "Kriegsschamanen" wie den Berserkern und Ulfhednar miteinbezieht, die später Unheil in die skandinavischen Gesellschaften brachten. 

Hier bleibt aber alles Weitere Spekulation, ob Odin nun tatsächlich nur magisch-schamanische Künste den Opferpriestern lehrte, was nicht ergi war oder doch am bekannten Seidhr beteiligt war, den er von den Vanen überliefert bekam. Seine Magie, mit verlaub gesagt ist für mich serh wenig "vansich" sondern viel eher "seidisch". ob ein Snorro´i das im 11.-12- jahrhundert noch klar ziehen konnte oder durfte bleibt unklar.  Hinweise hierzu könnten sein überliefertes Auftreten mit Umhang, Wanderstab und Hut sein, sein Bezug zu den Totengeistern und vor allem seine Hilfsmittel weissagende wie spähende Raben und Met etc., die ihm erst einige übernatürlichen Fähigkeiten ermöglichen. Das ist für einen Gott schon äußerst selten, dass er wie ein damals gängiger Seher oder Schamane herumlief und solche eher profanen Hilfsmittel benötigt. In der Serie Vikings, die wir schon empfohlen haben, taucht er sehr treffend beschrieben als sehender, unterhaltender und heilender Wanderer Harbard auf, der aber plötzlich bereit ist zu morden, weil eine Frau seinen becircenden Reden nicht verfiel und ihn und seine Ränke ablehnte. Aber wie gesagt, dies ist eine Frage der Deutung und kann wegen der sich manchmal widersprechenden Textstellen  nicht endgültig geklärt werden. Aber soviel noch abschließend hier: seine Bedeutung und vor allem seine Beliebtheit in der Wikingerzeit werden heute fast maßlos überschätzt, Thor, Freya und Frey z.B. wurden jeder für sich weitaus mehr verehrt, beopfert und wesentlich mehr Orte nach ihnen benannt als nach Odin. Wir führen dies hier nicht weiter aus, verweisen aber noch mal auf den etwas verzerrenden und romantisierenden Einfluss des 19. Jahrhunderts und der sich dort bildenden Dynastien und Kaiserreiche, die die Odinrezeption maßgeblich beeinflusst haben dürften. Odin wurde hier schon etwas dekonstruiert.

Der durchgängig zumindest zwielichtige Ruf der Seidhkonas und Seidhmadres in Skandinavien, mit Ausnahme einiger Orakel-Seidhr Expertinnen, wohlgemerkt nicht zu verwechseln mit den wesentlich besser angesehenen Spakonas, Spamadres und Valas und Völvas, ist unserer Meinung mit bedingt durch die Kenntnisse der Manipulation von Totengeistern verfluchter Ahnen und deren Einsatz gegen Opfer. Und dafür saß man eben auch gerne draußen an den Hügelgräbern herum, was schon zur heidnischen Zeit sehr ungern gesehen und später hart bestraft wurde. 

Magische Törungen und das Irremachen und Verfolgen von Opfern war auch in den skandinavischen Gesellschaften der Eisenzeit ein schweres Verbrechen, das zudem der offiziellen Ethik des offenen Kampfes und des Friedens und der Ehre und des Heils widersprach. Und genau dies verursachte u.a. den ergi Status der Seidhleute. Wer dies relativieren will, möge dies tun, wir tun dieses nicht. Zudem ist das Phänomen Seidr / Seidhr nur eine Randerscheinung in der spirituellen und magischen Welt der germanischen Gruppen gewesen. Es gibt dort sicher noch sehr viel über Phänomene wie Völven, Valas und Spa bzw. über die Krankenheilung mittels Zaubersprüchen und galdr und auch mit Kräutern etc. zu erforschen, die auch um das Zentrum des gesellschaftlichen Geschehens formiert waren, Anerkennung genossen und nicht als ergi galten. 
Und dies sollten wir auch tun, statt ständig Rapporte oder gar generelle Übereinstimmungen zwischen einer marginaliserten Technik wie Seidhr und der germanisch-nordischen Spiritualität per se herzustellen.

Gottheiten mögen sich auch einstellen, wenn man ein Blot zur richtigen Zeit richtig ausführt, dann stellen diese sich unter Umständen von selber ein, bzw. senden megin  statt von süssen Gesängen angelockt zu werden, wobei nieman weiss, ob nicht eher Geister erscheinen, die sich nur als Götter ausgeben.  Das mag auch der Unterschied zwischen Religion und Magie sein. 

Einen Artikel über altdeutsche Zaubersprüche befindet sich hier

Deshalb zum Schluss noch ein Beispiel von spiritueller Heiltätigkeit im Kontext der germanisch-nordischen Valas und Völven, jenseits des Seidhr, ein Ausschnitt aus dem Oddrúnargrátr, in dem eine magische Interaktion mittels Zaubersprüchen für schwere Entbindungen beschrieben wird. Eine christliche Interpretation oder Beeinflussung dieses Edda Gedichtes aus dem Codex Regius wird weitestgehend von uns bestritten.

Oddrun hat die Zaubersprüche für Borgny gesprochen, um die Entbindung zu ermöglichen:

  

rict gól Oddrvn,
rammt gól Oddrvn
bitra galdra
at Borgnyio.

Übers:

With magic Oddrun | and mightily Oddrun
Chanted for Borgny | potent charms.

Und Borgny dankt ihr:

Knatti męr oc mꜹgr
moldveg sporna,
born þꜹ in bliþo
viþ bana Hꜹgna;
þat nam at męla
męr fiorsivka,
sva at hon ecci qvaþ
orþ iþ fyrra:

Sva hialpi þer
hollar vettir,
Frigg oc Freyia
oc fleiri goð,
sem þv feldir mer
fár af hondom!“

Übers:

At last were born | a boy and girl,
Son and daughter | of Hogni's slayer;
Then speech the woman | so weak began,
Nor said she aught | ere this she spake:

"So may the holy | ones thee help,
Frigg and Freyja | and favoring gods,
As thou hast saved me | from despair now."

Quellen:

Codes Regius
Snorri: Edda
Ynglngasaga

Dubois: Nordic religions in the Viking age
Jenny Blain: Seidr
Jan Fries: Seidways
Odin revisted 1: Der Herr der Männerbünde
Odin revisited 2: Tote können nicht getötet werden 

Oddrúnargrátr

Bilder.

Schamanische Trommel der Sámi, Bindal, Nordland, Norwegen, 1925, gemeinfreie Lizenz

Sàmi Schamane von Meraker Nord-Trondelag, 18. Jahdt., gemeinfreie Lizenz

Seiðr, Seidr and Seidhr: Lifting the Veil - part one

Since the first part of the seidr article in German has been published, lots of positive reactions were triggered, i.e. one very unsatisfactory article about seidr was replaced in German Wikipedia  by a much better though not perfect version. The author felt obliged to publish this article also in English due to the impression, that certain misconceptions about the Germanic  heathen lore  continue to be spread in an organized way, like “Loki worship is cool” and “Seidr is fun for everyone” - even on a multinational level.
The second part of the seidr article in English ist available here. This blog is for  ethnohistorical research  –  and no tool of any organization or pressure group, please keep that in mind. 

We find it quite bizarre, that such a defamed magical technique as seidhr could be taught to everybody today - if it is seidhr what they teach, we don't know.  It may harm you but I am not saying it will harm you in any case. Even with oracle seidr you may take care before that you are in a stable psychological condition and do not carry to many demons around with you. But I exclude oracle seidr from many other techniques sold as seidr today as it has some more or less genuine elements. Just read Jenny Blain's warnings in her book "seidr" but please do not go the "Helway", we are not sure if Hel likes tourists but we are sure the helway is just a blend of Core Shamanic Techniques with the Germanic lore. Please read Part 2 of our Seidhr article for more specific warnings. 

Part 1: Terminology and Seiðr in action

Quick summary: seiðr or seidr or seidhr is a closely related group of complex and sometimes dangerous rituals, that were described well enough in the nordic sagas for a definition. Earlier sources as the sagas and Snorri’s Ynglingasaga are not known to us. (Except sources in the form of “shamanic channeling” or “seeing” but this not part of this research article)  For that reason we regard seiðr as a scandinavian phenomena of the later iron age that has a lot to do with cultural exchange with “finnish” or sami groups. (see part 2 for that)

If this kind of seiðr or seidr has existed 2000 years ago, before or later in the southern parts of Germania Magna: we don’t know but we feel it hasn’t, at least not in that specific scandinavian form described here. Because no known kind of Germanic magic has ever got such a bad reputation as seiðr did have in Scandinavia. To the contrary there is an ongoing worship for the Germanic Völvas, Valas, seers as Veleda, Valburga and many others here in the south until today. “Weleda” is i.e. a brand name for a nature cure company in Germany, well known for their herbal remedies with a very postive connotation.

There are much more sources than the well known and nice Eiriks Saga Rauda, chapter 4, with Spákona Thorbjörg fortelling the harvest and the future of a Greenlandish settlement in a seidr ritual. This kind of happy-go-lucky postcard picture of seiðr for many Asatruar is only one of many sources about seiðr. Sadly most of them are usually unknown to heathens today.

According to these sources, deaths and worse like constant madness among practitioners and targets were not uncommon – normal risks for magic mercenaries or “normal” magic deaths for those practising black seidr.

Thomas Dubois clearly defines seiðr as a heathen ritual mostly responding to a situation of crisis and is undertaken by a religious specialist at the request of a client and within the context of a communal gathering. Spirits are used or divination or manipulation of other people. Divination is white seidr, manipulation of others black seidr.

Sorry to disappoint any readers, who may expect recipes or practical lectures of how to do seiðr / seidr. Too much “unwanted misfortune” is connected with seiðr in our opinion, also nowadays, with the exception of oracular seidr Paxson style maybe. (and even this can be very dangerous as Jenny Blain describes in her excellent book) And: None of our honourable ancestors and as insiders of their clan with its virtues: Honour, Peace and Hail wanted close contact with seiðr or seidmen – with the eventual exception of oracle seiðr. Seiðkonas and Seiðmen were outsiders, much more than shamans were in other cultures, but nevertheless used and paid, often in secrecy. In that status they differed from spákonas and other seers, who were accepted by the community. Being labeled "a sorcerers friend" could mean the accused of being regarded as ergi and seperated from society themselves with the seidkona or seidmen.

They were – to our opinion - well paid magical mercenaries often with the outsider status of a “Neiding” often used for black magic attacks beside more honourable activities as oracle-seidr. I personally believe: anybody wishing to do black seiðr as a recreational activity nowadays may better look for help on a personal level. On the other hand: even this had its place somewhere in the 9 worlds, but we should not regard this as a common part of ancient heathen life.

Just at the beginning is the famous article from Ynglinga saga Chapter 7:

"Odin understood also the art in which the greatest power is lodged, and which he himself practised; namely,what is called magic / seidr.  By means of this he could know beforehand the predestined fate of men, or their not yet completed lot; and also bring on the death, ill-luck, or bad health of people, and take the strength or wit from one person and give it to another.But after such witchcraft followed such shame (ERGI),that it was not thought respectable for men to practise it; and therefore the priestesses were brought up in this art."

Before the Ynglinga saga describes that Freyja taught this art to the Asa gods first and so emphasizing the vanic and female charactre of seidr for the first time.

Seidr is NOT the generic term for magic in general in a norse context. Sadly, this misinformation was and is still published.

Seidr is a very specific art of magic:

Dubois concludes in his excellent work “Nordic religions in the viking age” in chapter 7, pp. 136 that the above mentioned negative and in a norse context effiminate characteristics of Seidr differ fundamentally from the praised magical arts of Odin, described at the beginning of chapter 7 of Ynglinga saga. These are taught to priest and not priestesses.

"Odin could transform his shape: his body would lie as if dead, or

asleep; but then he would be in shape of a fish, or worm, or

bird, or beast, and be off in a twinkling to distant lands upon

his own or other people's business.  With words alone he could

quench fire, still the ocean in tempest, and turn the wind to any

quarter he pleased.  Odin had a ship which was called

Skidbladnir, in which he sailed over wide seas, and which he

could roll up like a cloth.  Odin carried with him Mime's head,

which told him all the news of other countries.  Sometimes even

he called the dead out of the earth, or set himself beside the

burial-mounds; whence he was called the ghost-sovereign, and lord

of the mounds.  He had two ravens, to whom he had taught the

speech of man; and they flew far and wide through the land, and

brought him the news.  In all such things he was pre-eminently

wise."   (not ergi)

We see, that Odin is a master of “shamanic” techniques as shapeshifting, connection to power animals, shamanic journeys and divination etc., but all those techniques are described as increasing wisdom and positive and not shameful as seidr is. According to old icelandic scriptures, seidr is connected with the term ERGI, a deathworthy insult for effiminate, perfidious, cowardly behaviour, and sorcery itself, also but not only connected with passive homosexuality and female promiscuity.

That was the reason why seidr according to norse clan codex was taught to the women not the honourable men of a clan. For clansmen, not in the status of a NEIDING or Níð, the law of open fight and honour was mandatory. A debarment to practise black seidr.

Probably the male Seiðmadr were somehow in a Neiding status and we can NOT see a clear connection with homosexuality. Grönbech describes on page 340: “Vicious aimlessness is a characteristic of the sorcerer, qualifying his whole behaviour. Contrary to the man who knows in all what he is doing. The man without honour has no intention in a human sense; ...but there are other kinds of intentions or drives...that can be called sorcery.”
The defamation ERGI was mainly a very bad, deathworthy insult used for unmanly, effimate but also unethical behaviour against the codes of the norse clan in other areas of social life. It's use for passive homosexuality or female promiscuity is just a minor connotation. Pracitising seidr or having in depth knowledge about it was an ergi activitiy in itself! AND: in the complete old icelandic literature not one case of an actual homosexual act is decribed - only the accusations about it. 

The total moral ambivalence is the trademark of the seidr people in connection with their status of a neiding, not sexuality, as many people today argue and to put it frankly: we do NOT see seidr as a “queer phenomenon” because there is absolutely no proof of a “queer” or “gay”connection, only speculation but there is proof of a “Neiding connection”. Even the term ergi is translated wrong as "doing sodomy" just to fit in this. There is absolutely no evidence but the vague reference with the term ergi and Odin’s female dress Loki was joking about. 

And to set things straight: Seidr was not, in any connection an old norse code word for "gay scene". Homosexual acts had its kind of "legal" place in norse society more or less only between a slave, (Chritians were favoured)  as a passive and a free clansman as an active part. Both were not punished under this circumstances. Nearly all other homosexual activities meant punishment from more mild to most severe. But the task of the seidmen can not be seen as a a part of a sexual playground - they had other things to do, as we see.

In the most extensive work about seidr, Dag Strömbäck defines seidr in “Sejd. Textstudier i nordisk religionshistorie” as “a form of primitive magic to harm other people (black seidr) or to foresee the future, as well as weather an harvest (white seidr)”. Black seidr aims directly at the life and the spiritual wellbeing of the victim by causing fear, melancholia and restlessness.

Dubois emphasizes this as the main task of professional seidkonas and seidmadr and exactly that contributed to the bad reputation in heathen scandinavia. Absence of any kind of ethics or moral is remarkable and surrounds the whole complex of seidr, even white seidr. According to needs of the customers and the pay-offs, services offered include divination (also morally ambigious under some circumstances), magical killings and all steps of magical manipulation in between.

Even knowledge about the own future und those of other people, white seidr, had sometimes a stigma of moral fishiness by gaining an dishonorable advantage above others. Alway keep in mind the codex of the norse clans: Peace, Honor and Hail. Outside of that codex a human being was regarded as Neiding or similar. To gain a secret advantage above other clansmen or bonds puts anybody in a dangerous proximity to a Neiding and so banishment.

In Vatnsdoela Saga farmer Ingialdr invites a seidkona to the Norwegian island of Hefniey, to foretell the future of all party members. Public divination seems to be a common part of white seidr, contrary to the more secret black seidr. When Ingieladr’s son rejects the offer, the seidkona insists and tells him his future in Iceland against his will. Also in Örvar-Odds Saga and Nornagests þáttr persons reject knowledge of the future because they fear unwanted interference with their wyrd. (Picture: Skern Runestone, wiki commons)

About the Danish king Frodi Hrolfs Saga and Saxos Gesta Danorum report that he ordered his nephews to be traced, tracked and killed by a seidkona after they themselves hired a seidkona to kill the rightful king. Off course the seidkona Frodi hired was able to trace the two nephews but she refused to tell about their whereabouts because she was bribed before. Instead she claims a strange magical attack to be responsible for her failure. An example of seidr’s moral ambivalence – according to norse codex an ensemble of deathworthy crimes for different reasons. The behaviour displayed here is ergi in the worst sense and no homosexual act is in sight...... Instead pure "Neidingswerk" or Níð  ... The whole norse ethical system is turned upside down on different levels in this example and shows how strange and “outlandish” seidr was.

An evil intention shows Queen Gunnhildr in Egils Saga Skall-Grimssonar. She uses seidr to confuse the mind of the skald Egill. Gisla Saga Surssonnar describes how Thorgrimmir of Iceland used seidr to confuse his enemy Gisli who is wandering about restlessly and only finds peace on one specific island.

Even in Ynglingasaga itself evil consequences of seidr and its professional mercenaries are described: Queen Drifa hired not only a seidmadr to confuse the mind of swedish King Vinlandi but decides in the end to send him an incubus who takes posession of Vinlandi and kills him.

Laxdoela saga reports about a group of seidr professionals coming from the Hebrides to Iceland causing massive mischief there, due to seidr practices and committing magical thefts. At Allthing the men want to judge about the foreign seidmen but they built a plattform, a seidjallr, and begin to chant what is called “galdr”. So a storm is stirred up and the accuser is killed by a flood. (The galdr described here is different from the usual galdr but has some similarities)

In contemporary Norway this is still an issue. The author found a billboard from the Norwegian government in 2010 in a fjord in West-Norway to remind of the drowning of 120 “attacking seidmen” in the 8^th century. Those seidr soldiers came by boat, created magical fog to invade the village and to do some plundering there, but the villagers could defend themselves and killed all seidmen. Even today there is a strong aversion observable and the billboard was heavily marked with profanities. This billboard is a like a modern form of the Skern Runestone, one of many runestones where curses against seidmen or seidkonas were carved in. We got the impression, killings of seidmen is not regarded as a specifically evil deed up there, it is part of the Norwegian history when King Harald Fairhair and Erik Bloodaxe burned their relative, seidmadr Roegnvaldr Rettilbeini and 80 of his seidmen to death. Harald Fairhair just hated seidmen, even his own son. But do not misunderstand this as an aversion of myself or others I may know against seidmen or - women or an encouragement to prosecute them. These are just historical facts. 

An important element of white and black seidr is a “sweet song”, well known from the most important description of white seidr in Eriks Saga Rauda with Spákona Thorbjörg who was “doing seidr” or in old norse: “En um morgininn at áliðnum degi var henni veittr sá umbúningr, sem hon þurfti at hafa til at fremja seiðinn.”, as is clearly stated in the text. Thorbjörg clearly did seidr and not only spá. The song Vardlokkur is so sweet and it attracts the wise spirits, who are able to foresee the future. But as sweet as the Vardlokkur sounds the black seidr song of Kotkell and Grima from the Hebrides. And this songs only intention is to murder a man from another clan.  They built a seidjallr, a platform on top of a roof, sing the seidr song and when the victim leaves the house, blandished by the song, he is hit by the seidr and killed on the spot. So says Laxdoela Saga. And off course the seidmen were well paid for their contract kill.

Also Thorbjörg, the seidr icon for modern Asatruar, is well paid and treated with honor for her white seidr - she is definteley needed by the community. But she is an offspring of a family famous for their spákonas and all her sisters were also spákonas. Also Thorbjörg sits on a seidjallr and she needs also a sweet song to call the spirits. But her task is only to foretell the future for the Greenlandish community under pressure - no black seidr is done. The basic structure of the ritual remains the same: very special clothing, wand, high-seat, spirits, song, contact with spirits. These elements tell us today that Thorbjörg was doing seidr, white seidr, besides the fact that her activities were named as “fremja seiðinn”.  This form of oracular seidr doesn’t differ a lot from spá in its results, but the ritual is different and the “deepness”. So the question why Thorbjörg was also called spákona may find an additional answer here.  What takes Thorbjörg out a bit from the seidr context is her high social status. She is liked and respected. So maybe she was a spákona doing seidr there but usually only spá? Or she only practised white seidr? We will never know for sure but at least we see, there were some exceptions from the grim and gloomy picture of seidr painted in the sagas of our ancestors. (Picture: Völva Heiði, stamp of Faroe, artist: Anker Eli Petersen, public domain)

Today this form of white seidr is reconstructed by different groups, i.e. around Jenny Blain and Dianne Paxson. An honourable but not harmless and sometimes dangerous task as Jenny Blain reports. And this danger very often lies in the personalities of the particpants that shine in a completely different light when spirits are present in a seidr ritual. As Jenny Blain said: wyrd, health and fortune of whole groups can be changed for quite a time when just one “wrong” person is present and the spirits are “psyching out”. Blain also reported long-term physical illness of a whole seidr group she was part of  because one spirit had a bad day and didn't like one person there...... And we are stricty talking about white seidr here. But I doubt it is really "white" when people are going the "helway" there - who is able to encounter giants by the way, except maybe the gods and it is said that even they could not control Hel, so.......

Sources:
Dubois: Nordic Religions in the Viking Age
Dag Strömbäck: Sejd: Textstudier i nordisk religionshistorie
Grönbech:  Kultur und Religion der Germanen
Folke Ström: Nordendisk Hedendom
Mircea Eliade:  Schamanismus und archaische Extasetechnik
Sir Sigurd: Seidhr, a scholarly study of the art
Jenny Blain: Seidr
Vatnsdoela Saga
Örvar-Odds Saga
Tattr af Norna-Gesti
Hrolfs Saga
Saxos Gesta Danorum
Egils Saga Skall-Grimssonar
Gisla Saga Surssonnar
Ynglingasaga
Laxdoela Saga
Eiriks Saga Rauda

.